Battered and bruised koi

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Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:44 am

Morning all... I've returned from hols and find there is a problem in the big pond. The fish have been mating and my tancho, which I think is the only adult female, had been injured during the male pursuit. She is quite bruised and is on her side sheltered in the plant area. What should I do?

Many thanks.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:09 pm

Nothing Kaz, happens a lot, some times femals get a real beating :( lose scles, split fins etc but she will heal her self, but, you could get some medikoi pellets, they will boost her system, and ward off any other probs that can occure, trying to catch her to treat will most likely cause more probs and add to her stress, so feed her up, best help ya can give, and it wont hurt the others to eat the medikoi either, i mix some in my daily feed as a matter of course.

welcome back btw :)
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:47 pm

Thanks Alan... I am just about to pop an airbrick down in that part of the pond as she seems to be struggling a bit. One of her fins has been injured too. Yesterday I could see bruising on both sides of her body, with one side looking really red, but she's laying 'good side up' and the bruising on that side seems to have improved (see pic). She looks rough though... I remember her been savaged last year.

Image
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:33 pm

Its always a problem having more males per female, for good spawning results ya need 3 males per female, but when other females reach spawning age the pressure will be off her a bit, so she wont get quite so bashed about, but i have seen much worse, she dont look so bad, but i would try and turn her upright if she will let you, wedge her between something, laying on her side isnt a good thing at this point, trying to move her might shock her into action again, then try getting her to feed.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:59 pm

Hmmm... she has moved away from the shallow plant area and looks like she's having a hard time. Only one fin works, so she's having a problem getting around. She keeps trying to surface and gulp for air... very listless though. Out of interest Alan... would she benefit from being moved to the patio pond which is filtered and away from the other koi, or would the move distress her? I can't get the medikoi until Monday.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:41 pm

At this point kaz i wouldnt like to say, netting her now might stress her right out, but then again it may help if she was in the smaller pond, i think it maybe best to wait, see how she does over night, if she hasnt improved tomororw then move her, the males headbutt her sides to get her to shed the eggs, she was battered good by all the males that took part in the spawning, so bound to be a bit tender, females have been known to die as a result of spawning, so you need to judge for yourself the risk, of moving her :? but if she moved by herself that a good thing, so ..........
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:30 pm

Just an up-date... she has corrected her position, so no longer laying on her side. She's popped herself into the plants again. The mark on her back is still looking angry (which is how her side looked yesterday) and studying the picture, her left side around the gil area looks swollen. It's not a broken sore but looks like a potential ulcer (or am I just being paranoid?). Seeing how things go, if I move her to the small pond tomorrow, she'll be easier to treat if necessary.

Image

Thanks for your support Alan.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby Saswaa on Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:04 am

Kaz,
Good to see you are back and I hope you enjoyed your hols, also i`m sorry to hear about the stress both of you females are obviously feeling. You have actually encouraged me to type this next bit in about my own misfortune this week possibly due to spawning rituals. Tuesday I woke up and found 2 of my koi outside the pond dead. They had obviously jumped out and perished. After a quick head count I realised I was missing another koi too. After a long search and many quiet moments I found "Yang" in my bottom nature pond still alive but a little battered and bruised. The scary thing is that the nature pond is over 10` away from the large pond and only 3` square (Yang measure approximately 24"!!). I netted her and put her back in the large pond but kept a very keen eye on her to see if her trip had any side effects. Thursday evening I noticed a slight fraying of the tail fin and a fungal infection starting around the edges, the fish was extremely lethargic and sounds very similar to the situation you encountered with your Tancho. I treated the pond with Acriflavin Friday evening (you can buy it ready mixed however I have the concentrated powder form). Today the water is still an extremely ambient colour of luminous green/yellow but Yang has no fungal infection visible and is 100% more active.
Not wanting to hijack the thread but it might be of benefit to treat your pond with Acriflavin as it actually benefits removal of any fungal growth be it on fish or eggs, and also has a minimul load on the bacteria in your filter media. AJC will no doubt clarify whether this is a good/stupid idea. Hope all is ok soon.

Steve
I have 3 Ponds from 3`square to the big one. 14`x11`x6`. I have 20 koi, 2 orfe, 1 mirror, 2 big shubs, many goldfish, comets, sturgeon, grass carp, and many many more.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:26 pm

Sorry to hear you've had problems too Steve. That's quite amazing about the distance travelled by your other fish and then to end up safe in your other pond. Some time ago, one of mine had managed to jump the pond and move itself about 15'.

No sign of the tancho this morning... I was expecting to see it's lifeless body floating. Hopefully she's recovered a bit more and has gone deeper. I think she's too big and heavy for a heron... or is she???
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby alison on Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:16 pm

Well that is terrible for you both. :( I have been watching my fish and they have started to go after each other now and I was wondering why over the years I have never had babies, then a thought came to me that maybe the ghost koi was eating them or even the golden orf. I noticed that the koi would go to the place where the female had just been in the planting so he could so easily have been having a feast....
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:53 pm

Hi kaz, good, she uprighted herself so thats was a good thing, now as you say she has gpne deeper, thats normal, you may not see her for a day or so, but get some medikoi so when she is feeding again you will have it to hand to start boosting her recovery.i think you can relax a bit now kaz, she should be ok :)

Saswaa..... yours is slightly different, you koi flapped her tail ragged trying to flip back to water, getting soil paticles and other out of water comtaminants into the wounds so the chance of her getting an infection of some kind shot up to 100% where as kaz fish never left the water, so chance of hers getting an infection is no higher than normal, but, for 3 fish to jump out at the same time needs a bit of checking, especialy in an established pond, why! normaly fish are to knackered to jump after spawning, so an event such as that needs a full range of checks, one thing most koi keepers forget is that heavy rain and thunderstorms can cause rapid oxygen drops in ponds, they can go from being fine to danerous in a matter of minutes (daft as it may sound) and that will make koi jumpy, knackered or not, people with orf often find them dead after a heavy storm, orf need a greater ammount of oxygen than koi, but do not be quick to put it down to spawning, it may be that they did spawn and then a storm took out what was left of the oxygen, spawning fish use up a lot of oxygen in the water, do a water check and oxygen check, if for no other reason that to eliminate it as a cause, to many plants in a pond can also have an effect on oxygen as kaz found out last year, but you did right by treating her, although, acraflavrin as most of these treatments does reduce oxygen in a pond, so I would have treated the affected fish seperatley rather than the pond at this time, but treating was the thing to do, but sorry to hear of your loss, I know how it feels :(
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:58 pm

Hows the koi kaz?
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby kaz on Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:25 am

I haven't seen her Alan :(. I've frequently been going down to look... but she's not coming up for food. Would a heron be able to grab a fish her size? That day she was shallow in the plants... I stayed up all night because Scottie got home at 3am and we all ended up chatting... anyway, I was on the lookout for a heron. As dawn broke, we went down to the pond to look for her and I'd assumed she'd gone deep. If she had died... would she be floating by now?
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby alison on Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:08 am

When my Koi died I couldn't find her for ages. I kept looking and I had hoped that she was in the weeds somewhere getting better. (Of course she was much worse than yours Kaz so I am sure that this will NOT apply to you), she had terrible finrot and although we did everything possible even with the labs involved she still died. I suppose the point I wanted to make was that she didn't emerge immediately she had died. She had gone right under the large clump of watercress at the bottom of the pond shallows. When I did finally see her she had been dead for a while and only just risen.
I really hope that yours is getting better now. As Alan says being upright is a good sign that she is on the mend. I am sure that she will survive this ordeal. :D She is probably just hiding to heal herself.
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Re: Battered and bruised koi

Postby AJC on Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:23 am

I think she is a little to big for a heron to take, so wouldnt worry to much about that one, as for floating if she was dead, yes she would, but it might take a week, but I doubt that is the case either kaz, she is just sitting there getting over her injuries, I wouldnt worry to much, she moved off out of the shallows and that was a good sign, she might spend a week on the bottom out of sight, but she will come up to feed again, just be patient :)
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